Talk:Croatia

GAR

Croatia

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: Delist as doesn't meet GA criteria 2 or 3 (insufficient citations and lack of recent updates). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:17, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Article has "This section needs to be updated" tags in five sections: Economy, Transport, Demographics, Education, Sports, and As of 2019, the Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and European Integration employed 1,381[needs update]. It also has "needs additional citations for verification" tag for Sports, and a 'citation needed' in Healthcare section. 'clarification needed' is in Independent Croatia (1991–present) section. With 6 big orange templates article needs work to remain a GA. Artem.G (talk) 19:00, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

• Slightly longer than preferable, and with some oversubsectioning. However, overall not a bad article as far as country articles go, hopefully this can be fixed. CMD (talk) 07:54, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
• Delist: sections need to be updated, while citations are needed in selected places. As CMD noted, should be fairly easy to get back to GA standard, should someone wish to. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:17, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Comments and questions

1. The article says "During the 5th century, the last de jure Western Roman Emperor Julius Nepos ruled a small realm from the palace after fleeing Italy in 475."

However, it's not clear what is the "palace" in question. I assume it's Diocletian's palace which is the likely residence of Julius Nepos during his nominal continued reign in Dalmatia (as stated in the article on Julius Nepos).

2. The section "Personal union with Hungary (1102) and Habsburg Monarchy (1527)" ends with WWI.

It does not say anything more than that. At least it should explain how it started. I believe a short paragraph is needed since WWI was a major event in Europe (not only Croatia).

3. The image of the Danube river is pointless.

4a. The image in the "Climate" section was previously showing the bora but some genius removed it and placed an image that shows something completely unrelated to the bora. Please fix image and caption as necessary. It does not make sense.

4b. The "Climate" section mentions bora and bura. Let's try to stick to a single spelling for better clarity and uniformity.

5. The text says "As of May 2019, the Croatian military had 72 members stationed in foreign countries as part of United Nations-led international peacekeeping forces. As of 2019, 323 troops served the NATO-led ISAF force in Afghanistan. Another 156 served with KFOR in Kosovo."

It should be updated to 2024.

6. The text says "As a result of the war, economic infrastructure sustained massive damage, particularly the tourism industry."

What war is it? This is ambiguous. There is a lack of clarity.

7. The text says "The population decrease was greater a result of war for independence."

Is this even grammatically correct?

8. The image of the Šibenik Cathedral is ugly and it can be replaced with a better one with a better angle (from the front of the building).

9. The text says "Twenty of these schools got specialised assistance in the form of gear".

What does "gear" mean in this context? I speak English and it does not make sense to me.

10. The text says "As of January 2021, there are thirteen nationwide free-to-air DVB-T television channels, with Croatian Radiotelevision (HRT) operating four, RTL Televizija three, and Nova TV operating two channels, and the Croatian Olympic Committee, Kapital Net d.o.o., and Author d.o.o. companies operate the remaining three."

The are too many instances of "and". They are redundant/repetitive.

11. Chess is included in the sports section. It's not really a sport. It's not physical but mental. Football, racing and swimming are sports.

12. Some genius replaced the 4 images of traditional Croatian food with a single image of Zagorski štrukli. The previous image offered more national variety and it was a better choice.

13. The text says "Croatian athletes won 16 gold medals at world championships".

I find "world championships" very general.

ICE77 (talk) 23:36, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Alternate English Pronunciations

There are alternate pronunciations of the English word "Croatia", including "krow-AH-tee-uh" (common in England), "KROW-tee-uh" (common among the African American community), and "KRAY-sha" (usually associated with Australia). These should be represented in the article, possibly as a footnote. 166.196.79.79 (talk) 22:59, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I had previously removed this question as it seemed to be a weird troll. In case it's not clear, these claims seem like blatant violations of WP:OR and WP:HOAX. Anonymous user, if you want to be taken seriously, please cite sources. --Joy (talk) 07:52, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

'Establishment history '

The article is missing certain points in its 'establishment history' section. Some others should be rewritten in a more precise manner. In particular, additions should include the shortlived State of Slovenes, Croats, and the Serbs (the first Yugoslav pan-Slavic state) in 1918 and, The Independent State of Croatia in 1941. It is also more accurate to spcicify the 'Creation of Yugoslavia' as a kingdom, the First Yugoslavia, and further, to add the establishment of the Socialist, Second Yugoslavia in 1945, after the collapse of the Independent State of Croatia. Kupøla0 (talk) 13:00, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

This is the problematic part about overly broad infobox fields like "establishment history", they necessitate this sort of editorializing while ostensibly providing a summary.

It would make sense if we made the article consistent with others. I first checked these:

• Germany - FA-class, no establishment history in infobox
  • At the time of FA assessment in 2011, it was 4 entries, huge span
• France - C-class, 3 entries, huge historical span
• Italy - C-class, no establishment history in infobox
• Poland - B-class, 8 entries, huge historical span

Then I realized it's better to check according to higher standard, so I checked Category:FA-Class country articles:

• Australia - FA-class, 4 entries, short span (one century)
  • At the time of FA assessment in 2010, it was 4 entries, short span
• Japan - FA-class, no establishment history in infobox
  • At the time of FA assessment in 2011, it was 4 entries, huge span
• Bulgaria - FA-class, 6 entries, huge span
  • At the time of FA assessment in 2018, it was 4 entries, huge span

And from Category:GA-Class country articles:

• Philippines - GA-class, 5 entries, short span
  • At the time of GA assessment in 2010, it was 5 entries, huge span
• Jordan - GA-class, 3 entries, short span (one century)
  • At the time of GA assessment in 2016, it was 2 entries, short span
• Wales - GA-class, 5 entries, huge span
  • At the time of GA assessment in 2020, it was 4 entries, huge span

So the general pattern seems to be that historical span doesn't matter much. These lists tend to get inflated over time, but the gold standard is around 4 entries or less.

We're at 9 entries here now, so adding more is just not tenable. --Joy (talk) 13:38, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Croatian history is somewhat more layered compared to a number of other countries, but that is a different topic. Since there are already 9, adding just these 2 more would fully complete Croatia's historical establishment overview. With respect and, more importantly though, comparing the number of entries to those of different countries is simply pointless. Accuracy and thoroughness in information is of sole importance. A good day! :) Kupøla0 (talk) 14:15, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

The infobox is largely a summary of a summary (i.e. summary of the lead section which is itself a summary of the article). This means that it is not a place to present all polities, but only the most significant ones and especially not debatable ones (such as the SHS and the NDH which are normally excluded from "successions" of Croatian states as states not sanctioned by royal succession or parliamentary procedure). If it is necessary to present all 9 or 11 incarnations together for them to make sense, none should be included in the infobox. It should be quality over quantity in this area.--Tomobe03 (talk) 14:40, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

I believe the Establishment history section could and should be further shortened rather than expanded. EU and NATO memberships are not key events in the country's formation. Secession from Austria-Hungary is somewhat redundant with creation of Yugoslavia (the latter is a key event). –Vipz (talk) 02:49, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

NATO and EU can be certainly removed because they don't have anything to do with the section. Secession from Austria-Hungary and joining of the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs were officially declared by the Croatian Parliament. The Kingdom of SHS and Yugoslavia weren't officially declared by the Croatian Parliament, NDH was merely a short-lived occupation puppet-state, basically both states were usurping the State of SHS (and specifically of Croatia). There was also Democratic Federal Yugoslavia, but that's not needed, but there should be a link to Socialist Republic of Croatia.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 03:06, 18 January 2025 (UTC)